It is time to, once and for all, catch every Pokemon in gen 2. (2024)

That's a lot of projection.

No one cares.

That anon literally asked me to explain how unbalanced GSC is, what exactly did expect me to say?
Nobody cares if Gyarados can hit hard with waterfall either.

>all the sh*tty new Pokemon that take 20x the effort to get were a real boon
They were the last generation designed with soul. Also
>effort? EFFORT?! what do you mean i have to put effort into a game? i can't just obtain a living dex in a day? game is diarrhea dogvomit! bleh!
>There’s a reason people to this day tend to think Skarmory is Gen 3
the only "people" who think that were the earliest generation of gen z, born roughly 96 to 99, who would've been too young to have obtained 16 badges before ruby and sapphire, their generational defining game, came out

>You had VERY limited options for dealing with Lucian's Bronzong
Nah, were are plenty.
>Honchkrow
Outright immune to 2 of its 3 attacks and hits hard with Night Slash or Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball (with or without Nasty Plot).
>Mismagius
Is also immune to one of its attacks, and can take it down with a few Shadow Balls. Set up with Calm Mind and it does even better.
>Hippowdon
Bulky and can heal with Rest, plus it gets Crunch and Fire Fang to deal heavy damage.
Throw on Sleep Talk and it's unstoppable.
>a second Bronzong has hit the towers
Immune to or resists all of its attacks, can put it to sleep, confuse it, and even hit it with Shadow Ball or (admittedly far worse) Faint Attack.
If you manage to get one with Heatproof, you can use Skill Swap and frick it up with your own Earthquake.
>Biberel
Bulk it up with Amnesia (Curse in Pt is even better) and even the odds with Super Fang before finishing with Superpower. It hits for neutral damage, but 120 BP is still doing work.
>Gyarados
Not doing anything special, but resists one of its attacks while being immune to another, and has Aqua Tail and Waterfall LONG before you see Lucian.
>Spiritomb
If you bother getting one, just about anything it has will ruin Bronzong with no effort.

And there are a ton of others that can deal with it pretty effectively like Gastrodon, Drifblim, Floatzel, Vespiquen, Garchomp, Lopunny, Purrugly, etc. Hell, even Mantine could manage.
You never needed a Fire type. And if you did, Rapidash isn't exactly unusable.

[...]
>the game can be beaten to completion with any team
That doesn't make dealing with Babies enjoyable, or even a worthwhile inclusion.
Totally pointless at best, and an active detriment at worst.

look, anon, it's okay to be full of sh*t. there are places you go to get colonics to remove the impact. just don't take it out on the rest of us okay?
>That doesn't make dealing with Babies enjoyable, or even a worthwhile inclusion.
>Totally pointless at best, and an active detriment at worst.
in your (constipated) opinion. lots of people loved the new baby pokemon. hell, elekid is way cooler than electabuzz, and tyrogue is badass as frick, he'd frick your sh*t up if he knew the sh*t you're talking.

It's a checklist for them and not an adventure. They want to just go in and do it and say they did it. Anything that's obscure or rare and would require other people sharing their findings is instead tedious and time wasting.

I still say it's best to play Pokemon with at least one other person and with as little use of a guide as possible. Then you can trade exclusives and share what you've found with each other. Hell, you can trade over netplay now.

yeah it's sad. people ask how these games are rpgs if there's no roleplaying (lots of jrpgs) and it just reveals how little depth they're capable of comprehending. to them, an adventure would be waddling to the grocery store, looking the cashier in the eye and muttering a thanks. life is just a spreadsheet to them and all this pokemon tier balance bullsh*t going up and down over generations is some wall street stock exchange hom*osexualry.

You’re totally backwards. Gens 1 and 3 are the ones where you can organically find sh*t without looking it all up. Gen 2 is straight up terribly designed.

Answer me this. Would it ruin the game for Jasmine to have a Skarmory, Bugsy to have a Heracross, Morty to have a Misdreavus - just so you can plainly see that they exist?

NTA
>Ruin?
No, but it would probably change what those Pokémon were 'supposed' to be which is really rare/new pokemon. If you went into the games blind and not intentionally looking for a heracross or skarmory then there's a strong chance you'd never know they were even there and the very very few people who'd run into them would be lucky ones to get that pokemon.

Remember, part of Satoshi Tajiri's pitch for pokemon was "Dragon Quest, but what if I had some hyper rare thing, and my buddy didn't, wouldn't it be cool if I could trade that to him?". Having pokemon that exists in 1 version and on a single late game route (skarmory) or requiring the use of a specific move on a specific tree (heracross) would mean very few people (by chance) would end up with these rare pokemon they could trade...in theory at least.

Now, this thesis's fatal flaw is that guidebooks, promomaterial, advertising, and the internet made it so none of this went the way it was supposed to, but that's another conversation..

>It’s remarkable how so many pokegays deny that interview where he blatantly said he got the idea for Pokémon from dragon quest.
Do other pokemon fans really do that? Personally I think one of the very few pieces of praise I would give GF is how well they managed to make whole a new experience while being inspired by DQ. Most DQ clones are really JUST DQ but pokemon actually feels like a truly 'inspired' iteration of the formula, so much so it made it's own sub genre lol. Dismissing that seems silly.

I'm not the biggest DQ fan but it helped inspired two of my favorite games (Mother 1 and Pokemon) so there's clearly a lot to dig up from that series.

Most people don't want to wait xxx hours to be able to catch something that has zero usefulness at that point of the game tho
That's the big problem, late game pkmn should always be legendary tier to make any sense

There are always going to be late game pokemon, it's like that in every single pokemon game. Otherwise pokemon would just be front-loaded in the first half of the routes and the later routes would have nothing new. The pokemon fanbase is just extremely autistic about Houndour and Slugma being "Johto Pokemon" even though that concept didn't exist at the time the games were made. The new pokemon in G/S/C were just new pokemon.

Most people don't want to wait xxx hours to be able to catch something that has zero usefulness at that point of the game tho
That's the big problem, late game pkmn should always be legendary tier to make any sense

>Never said that having late game mons is bad, but rather that Slugma and Houndhour aren't good enough to excuse how late they are, same with Murkrow. Larvitar is pseudo-legendary and Misdreavus can wall Red's snorlax for what it's worth, but rest? Should've been in Johto.

I don't align with this perspective. The games aren't difficult enough that a "strong" pokemon matters all that much. Slugma being as powerful as Tyranitar or as weak as Ledian doesn't make much of a difference because it's still useable at any point in the game.
Also, consider the direction gen 2 specifically took with it's more leisurely pacing and daily tasks. The games put a slightly greater emphasis on going out and capturing every Pokémon, in gen 1 you don't really ever have much of a reason to backtrack and so the game feels more geared towards the beating gyms facet of the games, much more forwardly focused. Gen 2's game design attempts to give an increased emphasis on the collecting aspect by having the player running around the map everyday doing different sh*t, much more searching focused. Slugma (and other pokemon) don't need to be justified solely via their battle utility under this paradigm.

I don't know if 'bonding' was part of the calculation tbh. The simple fact of encountering and capturing them was the treat in and of itself. Plus, as mentioned previously, the thesis for these games was in part predicated on trading things you have that aren't 'rare' to you for something that is with other people. If you're late game Sugma/Macargo might be a decent pokemon to trade someone who's still in early game for a version exclusive.

I really think Pokemon's own enduring memetic legacy is one of it's greatest pitfalls, so much is built into how people expect the games to be that it renders ever attempt at moving in a different direction feel like sh*t to players lol.

no more like give us actually interesting pokemon quicker than after we stop playing the game
nobody is swapping out their 60 levels for a slugma and the "but it's for the dex" argument is even worse
gen 2 and 5 both do this sh*t, fortunately they got better with this with time

Also, what this conversation grew out of was already answered 50 posts in.
"Worldbuilding" by putting sh*tty Pokemon late game is okay as long as there are okay Pokemon before, Gen 2 Pokedex is notoriously fricking sh*t, and basically every non-sh*t non-starter non-bug Pokemon is hidden behind late game or byzantine catch methods. Unless you cope with the sequel sh*t and say that catching Kanto Pokemon only in Johto is good.

I had a strategy guide growing up that gave commentary on all the pokemon as you found them and most of the Johto stuff was "lol this thing is fricking useless anyway LOOK AT ALL THE COOL NEW STUFF KANTO POKEMON CAN DO NOW"

Of course there are better ones, that doesn't make it bad. People act like anything with a sub-500 BST is unusable.

Competitive pokemon didn't invent the word "viable".

And? You can easily beat the game with it. It's viable.
Suggesting that it "only got viable when it got Huge Power" is terminal comp brain.

Maybe, but this

found this on plebbit to illustrate the issue
https://docs google com/spreadsheets/d/1P8Hk_X86TdkyEOVMYZ5FcnYGpeawc9MnkIYPJcfDY3s/

applies.

I don't know if 'bonding' was part of the calculation tbh. The simple fact of encountering and capturing them was the treat in and of itself. Plus, as mentioned previously, the thesis for these games was in part predicated on trading things you have that aren't 'rare' to you for something that is with other people. If you're late game Sugma/Macargo might be a decent pokemon to trade someone who's still in early game for a version exclusive.

I really think Pokemon's own enduring memetic legacy is one of it's greatest pitfalls, so much is built into how people expect the games to be that it renders ever attempt at moving in a different direction feel like sh*t to players lol.

> much is built into how people expect the games to be that it renders ever attempt at moving in a different direction feel like sh*t to players lol
Not wrong lol, and then it ends up being beloved after some years like megas.

honestly they wouldn't have necessarily had to migrate much at all depending on how big the blast was from the volcano and the direction it spewed